Mount St. Traci
Well, it has finally happened... My brother (herein known as "the boy") has finally caused the wife (Traci) to explode -- she even dropped the Fun word (note the capital F in Fun... you should be able to figure out which word this is)!
She didn't explode at him, as in yelling or berating him, but at his logic and/or arguments in a discussion.
First, let me say that both the wife and I enjoy challenging each other and arguing our viewpoints to each other when they differ -- which isn't too often, after all we have many of the same beliefs; this is what helps make us compatible for each other. At the end of these discussions, we may walk away frustrated that the other person is an idiot for not seeing the obviously correct side of the discussion (our own side), but there are never linger feelings of anger or resentment; like I said we enjoy these challenges.
As such, we also enjoy engaging in discussions with others, if they can make intelligent or interesting arguments for their point of view. This is sometimes how you learn things you might otherwise not know; there is nothing wrong with this.
Enter the boy... I don't get it. He's a paradox on so many levels. I know he's intelligent, yet he's an idiot. He knows tons about finance (he works in this industry), but he sucks at applying his knowledge on a personal level. Many, many, many times, my conversations with him end with me walking away rubbing my head, mumbling things like "it hurts so much..." I just don't get his logic, more correctly -- lack of logic at times.
Well, the wife has now had the experience. Typically she doesn't get involved in our discussions because often they are about things she is either not interested in, or doesn't want to get involved for other reasons.
As it turns out for 2 straight nights (Tuesday and Wednesday) the 3 of found ourselves discussing seemingly trivial things that have led to bigger issues. The first night was centered on the English language (Dan, if you think I'm picky about the rules of the English language, you've NEVER dealt with Traci.) I'll leave the details out, but note that we have started to call Jeff (the boy), jEEff (pronounce a long E sound) as a joke.
Last night, however, the discussion started innocently on a subject -- the Punk Rock Straight-Edge movement -- a little closer to Traci's personal experiences, and just spiraled down from there. Remember, Traci was a goth chick in high school. I often envision her father (HUGE neo-conservative guy), dropping her off at the "uppity/preppy" school she attended, dressed as she was... and chuckle. Not to mention the girl was wicked smart and I'm sure drew some confounding stares from the probably conservative faculty. She even started a campaign to oust the headmaster from the school, which I believe she won... I'll check on that fact.
For those who want to know the details of last night's discussion, read between the set of asterisks --
*****************************************
According to jEEff, this movement was started by a couple that endured a horrific experience and blamed it on the hard and heavy drugs they were using at the time, and just woke-up one day and swore off all of this, pulling a complete 180-degree in their lifestyle -- I can find no reference to this incident anywhere as a starting point for the movement.
OK... doesn't matter if that story is true or an urban legend meant to inspire people. I say anything along these lines that can help inspire or encourage someone to turn their life around, more power to it.
The boy's arguments center around -
1) he does not believe it possible for anyone to wake-up one day and do a 180. No matter what has happened, or what traumatic event occurred - it's just not possible. I'll even grant him that most who try this fail (I don't know the statistics for this), and there aren't many that fall into this category to begin with. But according to him, there is absolutely zero percent chance this can or has ever occurred. He will concede (I think) that over time people can make changes, but that these changes are drawn-out, and invariably will not be completely opposite to where they started.
2) Most who claim something along this line, relate or tie this in with finding religion. Jeff is an explicit atheist. As such (and I would suppose most people would agree with him on this), he has problems when people claim to have found religion to help clear their name with society, or when they do things against individuals or society in the name of religion.
Despite some off the cuff examples of people we know who have made changes in their lives after experiencing a traumatic event -- someone has a heart attack and resolves themselves to get healthy and improve their lifestyle. According to him, if they would then go even one day without exercising or working-out, they have not pulled a 180.
I should have suggested he attend a couple of AA meetings or things along these lines. I'm not suggesting that everyone or even the majority of people have had an epiphany and have immediately pulled their life around, but I'm willing to bet you wouldn't have to look all that long and hard to find someone, and again...
So what if ALL these stories are urban legends... If they help just one person to improve their life, isn't it worth it? Yes, it's a white lie, but doesn't the end justify the means in this case?
His response was no. Since nobody can possibly pull a 180, there should not be any stories even suggesting this.
*****************************************
The exact discussion didn't go word for word like the above, and believe it or not I have left out large chunks. But the general gist is there. At any rate, the 10+ minute discussion ended with Traci dropping the Fun word, and saying "I can't take it any more. It hurts so much..."
My response to her... "Welcome to my world!"
She didn't explode at him, as in yelling or berating him, but at his logic and/or arguments in a discussion.
First, let me say that both the wife and I enjoy challenging each other and arguing our viewpoints to each other when they differ -- which isn't too often, after all we have many of the same beliefs; this is what helps make us compatible for each other. At the end of these discussions, we may walk away frustrated that the other person is an idiot for not seeing the obviously correct side of the discussion (our own side), but there are never linger feelings of anger or resentment; like I said we enjoy these challenges.
As such, we also enjoy engaging in discussions with others, if they can make intelligent or interesting arguments for their point of view. This is sometimes how you learn things you might otherwise not know; there is nothing wrong with this.
Enter the boy... I don't get it. He's a paradox on so many levels. I know he's intelligent, yet he's an idiot. He knows tons about finance (he works in this industry), but he sucks at applying his knowledge on a personal level. Many, many, many times, my conversations with him end with me walking away rubbing my head, mumbling things like "it hurts so much..." I just don't get his logic, more correctly -- lack of logic at times.
Well, the wife has now had the experience. Typically she doesn't get involved in our discussions because often they are about things she is either not interested in, or doesn't want to get involved for other reasons.
As it turns out for 2 straight nights (Tuesday and Wednesday) the 3 of found ourselves discussing seemingly trivial things that have led to bigger issues. The first night was centered on the English language (Dan, if you think I'm picky about the rules of the English language, you've NEVER dealt with Traci.) I'll leave the details out, but note that we have started to call Jeff (the boy), jEEff (pronounce a long E sound) as a joke.
Last night, however, the discussion started innocently on a subject -- the Punk Rock Straight-Edge movement -- a little closer to Traci's personal experiences, and just spiraled down from there. Remember, Traci was a goth chick in high school. I often envision her father (HUGE neo-conservative guy), dropping her off at the "uppity/preppy" school she attended, dressed as she was... and chuckle. Not to mention the girl was wicked smart and I'm sure drew some confounding stares from the probably conservative faculty. She even started a campaign to oust the headmaster from the school, which I believe she won... I'll check on that fact.
For those who want to know the details of last night's discussion, read between the set of asterisks --
*****************************************
According to jEEff, this movement was started by a couple that endured a horrific experience and blamed it on the hard and heavy drugs they were using at the time, and just woke-up one day and swore off all of this, pulling a complete 180-degree in their lifestyle -- I can find no reference to this incident anywhere as a starting point for the movement.
OK... doesn't matter if that story is true or an urban legend meant to inspire people. I say anything along these lines that can help inspire or encourage someone to turn their life around, more power to it.
The boy's arguments center around -
1) he does not believe it possible for anyone to wake-up one day and do a 180. No matter what has happened, or what traumatic event occurred - it's just not possible. I'll even grant him that most who try this fail (I don't know the statistics for this), and there aren't many that fall into this category to begin with. But according to him, there is absolutely zero percent chance this can or has ever occurred. He will concede (I think) that over time people can make changes, but that these changes are drawn-out, and invariably will not be completely opposite to where they started.
2) Most who claim something along this line, relate or tie this in with finding religion. Jeff is an explicit atheist. As such (and I would suppose most people would agree with him on this), he has problems when people claim to have found religion to help clear their name with society, or when they do things against individuals or society in the name of religion.
Despite some off the cuff examples of people we know who have made changes in their lives after experiencing a traumatic event -- someone has a heart attack and resolves themselves to get healthy and improve their lifestyle. According to him, if they would then go even one day without exercising or working-out, they have not pulled a 180.
I should have suggested he attend a couple of AA meetings or things along these lines. I'm not suggesting that everyone or even the majority of people have had an epiphany and have immediately pulled their life around, but I'm willing to bet you wouldn't have to look all that long and hard to find someone, and again...
So what if ALL these stories are urban legends... If they help just one person to improve their life, isn't it worth it? Yes, it's a white lie, but doesn't the end justify the means in this case?
His response was no. Since nobody can possibly pull a 180, there should not be any stories even suggesting this.
*****************************************
The exact discussion didn't go word for word like the above, and believe it or not I have left out large chunks. But the general gist is there. At any rate, the 10+ minute discussion ended with Traci dropping the Fun word, and saying "I can't take it any more. It hurts so much..."
My response to her... "Welcome to my world!"
Labels: brother, complaints, wife
posted by Rich B | 11:18 AM
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2 comments
